Chapter 5 - 255

7th Jun 2007

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Author's Comments:

Reply Enkida, 25th May 2007

Canon Breaks 6 Less important canon breaks:

Cid still flies the Highwind and has a family. Cloud is a bouncer/mayor. (Honestly. Who sets their sights on becoming a 26-year-old pizza delivery boy after single-handedly killing Sephiroth and saving the world?!) Tifa runs a bar in Costa del Sol, Barret is the mayor of Corel and supplies Reeve, who is the mayor of Junon, with the fossil fuels required to run his new energy company. Last but not least, Rufus Shinra and Tseng are, as per the original game, dead. Bugenhagen, however, IS still alive - and that IS canon. Despite his dramatic farewell speech and collapse in front of Nanaki, you actually can see him at the end of the game stowing a ride on the Highwind - he just wanted an excuse to leave Cosmo Canyon and have some fun! ;-)

I heard that BC places Rude and Reno as active Turk members when Vincent was also a Turk. So how old ARE they, anyway, and what skin creme is Reno using?!

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User's Comments:

Reply AniMes18 (Guest), 7th Jun 2007

Awesome page! Vinnie must be the prettiest pheonix ever! its definatly a good look for him...ok so it hurts...he should suck it up! anyway...just so you know in BC it is set 6 or 7 years before the events of FFVII...so thats about one or two years before Sephy went loopy...so reno and rude are not really that old...maybe like 27 or something...and it is true that the turks meet Vincent because they wake him from his sleep in his coffin...so Vinnie's all like red cape and long hair already...he wasnt our pretty Turky in that game...so yeah...just so you know! ^-^
btw when is yuffie coming back? im like going through withdrawal or something! lol

Reply Guest, 7th Jun 2007

Do you mean in the final cinematic you can see bugenhagen?

Reply andygoth, 7th Jun 2007

Ooh, burny! :^)

Reply Servant_of_SHEVAL (Guest), 7th Jun 2007

Yay Cloud Cameo! More really pretty pictures... and yay for the drama of those last quotes!

Reply Shadow_13, 7th Jun 2007

MMmmmm.... I may be impaled by daggered comments for this.... but I rather don't like the silhouette of Vincent/Phoenix.... it looks too much like a freaky Amazonian bug of some sort... like a gigantic bazillion-legged-poison-you-just-by-looking-at-it-and-it's-obscenely-over achiever-attitude-in-antenna-growth bugs.

*shivers*

But perhaps that's just me.

Reply Rachey (Guest), 7th Jun 2007

It's Just You Yeah Shadow, I definitely think that's just you, but I'm not gonna dagger you, or anything. Besides the feathers/tail/etc I think that it could also kinda look like a pretty nifty trophy.

But nice job on this page.

Reply jeff (Guest), 8th Jun 2007

you know, when you first switched from black and white to color i really wanted you to stay with your old style, but after the last two pages i have one word to say, WOW, these are increadable and are only getting better, you have are insainly tallented in both story telling and drawing, keep up the good work.

Reply NameIsZ (Guest), 8th Jun 2007

ah, thats better of Phoenix ^_^ didnt look right to me when it was Vincent and the summoning combined O_o

Reply Sirius (Guest), 8th Jun 2007

Cloud, Master of Understatement Ohh, wow! Cool! Pheonix looks neat... At least, from the shadow! And, Cloud looks cool, too!

Reply M - SyxX (Guest), 8th Jun 2007

The irnoy of it all... Considering that Vincent is older than Cloud for a couple of decades or so, it's Cloud who winds up being more mindful & wise than Vincent. Guess, dealing with Sepiroth, the deaths of Aerith & Zack, as well as the events in Advent Children really molded Cloud into that stage of enlightenmnt...

Reply klepto-maniac0 (Guest), 8th Jun 2007

GodDAMN I LIKE THIS PAGE. I'm a sucker for layout, and this page's is just...so beautiful. Cloud's expression is just perfect, too. Has that unable to tell everything look that is just so hard to convey. The silhouette of Phoenix was a masterful executive decision. My god I am in love. LOVE!!!

Reply Shadow_13, 8th Jun 2007

Rachey - Don't look now... but you just did. *pulls small dagger out of shoulder*

And btw... no, it wasn't just me. My husband didn't like it either.

I, by no means, am dissing Enkida in any way.. I usually love and always support her unique versions of well-established ...well, anything, really. I just didn't like the silhouette. Sorry if you think I am WRONG (gods forbid!) for having a different opinion... but I thought I would be honest and give my feedback along with the gush and praise she normally gets.

Silly me for opening my mouth!...er....well, typing on my keyboard, at least! :op

Reply Valentine, 8th Jun 2007

The Price of Resurrection I thought that all the Phoenix takes from you is 180 magic points...

Seriously though, I love the though of the Phoenix taking something deeper. It reminds me of the old ways.

Further to my knock out and death point made on the previous page, why didn't the gang just use a tuft of Phoenix down to revive Aeris (or Aerith if you're in the States)? It was just a sword in the gut, afterall, and I expect everyone's revived Aeris from worse...

Reply Shadow_13, 8th Jun 2007

Valentine - I've often thought that as well! Granted, I wasn't into FF until AC came out and I became obsessed... but when I asked me hubby that q, he was taken a bit back and couldn't give me an answer either! Bugs the poo out of him now!

Reply WolfGrrl (Guest), 8th Jun 2007

Phoenix Given where you *get* the Phoenix summon materia, I'm not surprised that its messed up. :P

Reply Jae (Guest), 8th Jun 2007

Wow, absolutely gorgeous. Phoenix was my favorite summon in the game, and you just reminded me why. :)

Reply andygoth, 8th Jun 2007

Valentine, Shadow 13 The reason Phoenix Down couldn't save Aeris is because Cloud is a cheapskate. See for yourself: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=176 .

Reply Strawberrylemonade, 8th Jun 2007

Buahaha!!! I LOVE that comic! And that one is my favorite of them all. The Vincent cat cracked me up. And Septhiroth is just weird, with his huge Katana thing... And they actually expect you to defeat him in KH 2?! How the heck are you supposed to do that?!
But it's awesome that Vincent ultimate defense things materia can stop death technically... I guess... is kind of cool.
Cloud, Master of Understatement
I thought that was funny.
Ack! I'm ranting! I went to Taco Cabana (I HATE it there!) and had about 3 cups of Vault. It's part of the fountain drinks now!! And I went there because I was dragged there by my starving mother and sister.

Reply Yuffie (Guest), 9th Jun 2007

yey new page....woo....

sorry, i feel really bitchy right now -_-

Reply Rachey (Guest), 9th Jun 2007

Shadow I seriously didn't mean that to come off as rude or anything against your person. If it came off that way, I'm sorry, really I am. I was respecting your opinion though sometimes its hard to get across meaning when you only have words and no tone to set them too. ;)

Reply Rachey (Guest), 9th Jun 2007

Also when I made my original commment, I had no sleep in the last 24 hours or so, and I think the wording got scewed. -_-'

Reply Sexy_Reno, 9th Jun 2007

*drools*
Your art is sooo awesome.
*is in total awe*

Reply Casseh Valentine (Guest), 9th Jun 2007

I love how you showed Phoenix in the top pannel. Beautiful! And Cloud...*drools*

I love your work, Enkida!

Reply klepto-maniac0 (Guest), 9th Jun 2007

Yep Cloud is a cheapskate. Or maybe kind of stupid. Or just had bad timing, because I imagine the original Phoenix would have been able to bring Aeris back to life, but the little tufts of its feathers just didn't have enough oomph. Or it could be like in FFT, where there's a timer to bring someone back to life before they are permanently dead.

There's a million theories. But personally I like the cheap Cloud one.

Reply KnightLight (Guest), 9th Jun 2007

Jenovacide... Well, why didn't the Cetra use Esuna on each other when Jenova infected them and started turning them into monsters? I'd think Jenova would be able to permanently kill an Ancient with a direct attack. Perhaps some sort of infection or toxin?

Reply Another Guest (Guest), 10th Jun 2007

Or it could merely be the way the game designer decided to implement the player's ability to say "Whoops, that didn't happen..." - I mean, there's no way you could actually take a direct hit from anything in FFVII, so everything is dodged, avoided, or too minor to worry about. So when Aeris/th gets organ-stabbied, she just didn't dodge the attack and Sephiroth's horribly brutal sword ran her through.

(Take a look at FFVII:AC - they spend almost all their effort avoiding attacks, and when someone actually takes one, it's usually fatal/disabling.)

Reply KnightLight (Guest), 10th Jun 2007

Well... If we're going to go by Advent Children, they are all pretty much superheroes, so maybe the Masamune is made out of Kryptonite. :o

Or perhaps Aeris just CHOSE to die because she realized that Meteor would be summoned and wanted to return to the Lifestream to boost Holy when the time came.

It occurs to me, from the end of FF7 and all through FF7:AC that Aeris has pretty much achieved what Sephiroth dreamed of.
All hail Aeris, benevolent goddess of Lifestream. o_O

Reply Auronous (Guest), 10th Jun 2007

I have often wondered if Aeris, as they used her in Advent Children, was just supposed to be a figment of Cloud's mind, since nobody else saw her.
As far as Aeris dying and not being revived, I have heard a thousand theories. One of the ones I've heard Sephiroth's Masamune has some sort of special property that can kill someone permanently. It could be something like a soul stealing effect.
In reality though, it was really the fault of the plot hammer. Up to that point in the story each character had fewer reasons to follow Cloud. Tifa followed him out of love and friendship. Nanaki (aka Red XIII) followed him because Bugenhagen said he should. Barret followed him to protect the planet and get revenge against Shinra.
Cid also followed him for revenge against the Shinra. Yuffie followed him for his materia. Cait Sith followed him because it was his job.
Each of them had a reason, but Aeris death brought them all together and gave them a burning reason to fight Sephiroth.

Reply klepto-maniac0 (Guest), 10th Jun 2007

Amen to that. Can I get a witness?

Reply andygoth, 10th Jun 2007

Auronous: Are you saying that Cloud let Aeris die because it would solidify his position as leader?

Reply Auronous (Guest), 10th Jun 2007

I am not saying that Cloud let Aeris die, I am saying that it is sort of a plot hole. In theory, a Phoenix Down or Life spell should have been able to bring Aeris back to life, however, allowing her to die allowed the other characters to have a reason to fight other than their loose association with Cloud and the other members of the party. It wasn't Cloud who let Aeris die, but Square and Tetsuya Nomura. Although I hate to think of it like this, you have to admit that it was an incredible plot device.
The first time I played through FFVII, My main party was Cloud, Tifa, and Aeris. Now I might be weird for saying this, but when I pick a main party, I usually get attached to each of those characters. When I got to the City of the Ancients and witnessed Aeris death, I was saddened and outraged. After seeing that, there was no way that I was going to set the game down until I had done some serious damage to Sephiroth. In that way, Aeris death was an incredible plot device. It outraged the player, insuring that they would continue to play, and it provided the player with a feeling of empathy for the characters. It also gave the characters as people a reason to fight and stick together.
That was the point I was trying to make andygoth, not that Cloud let Aeris die, but that it was an incredible device for the game.

Reply andygoth, 10th Jun 2007

Auronous: I didn't think you were saying such a nasty thing about Cloud, but I asked anyway because I knew it would elicit some good discussion.

You are not weird for developing attachments to in-game characters. I'm the same way--- see my introductory post in the Growth forum. I think making players get emotionally involved with characters is a trait of a very good game (or book or movie or ...). That's why we're here!

I think you're right in saying it's a plot hole. Square knew Aeris's death would deeply resonate with players, so they willfully overlooked things like the incredible curative powers of materia and the Lifestream, both of which Aeris was up to her eyeballs in. I think this may be borderline deux ex machina.

I guess Square could have spent some time explaining *how* it was that Aeris died and couldn't be saved (only avenged), but let's be honest with ourselves. In all likelyhood, such an explanation would only detract from the emotional impact, the thing we value most, the thing that has kept us talking for ten whole years.

Reply Valentine, 11th Jun 2007

Aeris' Death Aeris couldn't be revived because she was dead. Simple as.

No attack in the Final Fantasy VII battle system can cause death to a character, no matter how weak or damaged they are. The worst a character has to worry about is being Knocked Out.

It's hard to keep in mind that Final Fantasy VII is a game of 'invisible' statistics. Look at Advent Children and bare in mind that a Final Fantasy VII battle actually moves like that in real life. Now it kind of becomes obvious why an attack that engulfs your entire party with the flames of the sun doesn't completely incinerate them - because in real life, they wouldn't just stand there and take it. Therefore the damage dealt is the damage given after all dodging, blocking, etc. is worked out using that character's stats.

Now think back to Aeris' death. Her defense was down, she didn't even attempt to block or dodge, and therefore the attack was fatal, and rightly so. If she had been in battle mode, she might just have been knocked out, due to her defense forcing an indirect hit resulting in blood loss, which would be revivable.

Reply Dark-Chaos, 15th Jun 2007

I'll check what you said, but Tseng did live in the original game. It was poor translation that resulted in people being misinformed and thinking he was dead.

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